並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%81%BD%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E%E5%AD%B8%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87/%E6%92%A4%E5%83%91%E7%9A%84%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87-%E5%8A%9F%E5%A4%AB%E7%86%8A%E8%B2%93%E6%8C%BA%E9%B5%9D%E7%88%B8%E7%88%B8-%E4%BF%84%E7%BE%85%E6%96%AF%E4%BE%B5%E7%83%8F-%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E4%B9%9F%E6%B2%92%E9%96%92%E8%91%97-lz7YojRMkt0/