並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep72-%E5%AE%8C-%E5%9C%B0%E7%90%86-%E9%83%BD%E5%B8%82%E5%82%B3%E8%AA%AA-%E6%97%A5%E6%B2%BB%E5%88%91%E5%A0%B4%E4%B8%80%E5%A4%A7%E5%A0%86-%E7%A0%8D%E9%A0%AD-%E6%A7%8D%E6%96%83-%E9%85%B7%E5%88%91%E6%8A%98%E7%A3%A8-%E9%83%BD%E5%B8%82%E5%82%B3%E8%AA%AA%E8%9E%8D%E5%90%88%E4%BA%86%E5%93%AA%E4%BA%9B%E6%99%82%E6%9C%9F%E7%9A%84%E8%A8%98%E6%86%B6-%E8%AE%80%E6%9B%B8%E6%9C%83/id1544203231?i=1000548185866