並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep139-%E5%8B%95%E7%89%A9%E6%BA%AB%E6%B3%89-%E7%99%BC%E6%8F%AE%E5%89%B5%E9%80%A0%E5%8A%9B%E8%A7%A3%E6%B1%BA%E5%95%8F%E9%A1%8C/id1525687063?i=1000583270811