並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep132-%E4%BD%A0%E7%9A%84%E5%8A%AA%E5%8A%9B-%E6%98%AF%E9%80%B2%E5%8F%96%E9%82%84%E6%98%AF%E9%80%83%E9%81%BF-%E6%AF%8F%E5%80%8B%E9%81%8E%E5%BA%A6%E5%8A%AA%E5%8A%9B%E7%9A%84-%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E5%82%B7%E7%97%95%E7%B4%AF%E7%B4%AF%E7%9A%84%E5%A4%A7%E4%BA%BA-%E8%AB%AE%E5%95%86%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%B8%AB-%E5%91%A8%E6%85%95%E5%A7%BF-%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA/id1452688611?i=1000512445770
