並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep05-%E9%96%8B%E7%AE%B1%E5%B1%95%E8%A6%BD%E8%A3%BD%E4%BD%9C-%E5%B1%95%E8%A6%BD%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E8%A6%96%E8%A6%BA-%E5%B1%95%E5%A0%B4%E8%88%87%E7%87%88%E5%85%89%E8%A8%AD%E8%A8%88%E6%80%9D%E8%80%83%E5%A4%A7%E5%85%AC%E9%96%8B/id1591433852?i=1000544037613