並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E8%AE%80%E9%A5%97%E6%99%82%E5%85%89-ep14-%E5%B2%A9%E6%B3%A2%E6%96%B0%E6%9B%B8-%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E7%9A%84%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E7%95%B6%E4%BB%A3%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E5%AD%B8%E8%80%85%E7%9C%BC%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%8F%B2/id1555683396?i=1000541713435