並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep18-%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E9%B4%A8%E5%AD%90%E7%9A%84%E9%B4%A8%E5%98%B4%E7%8D%B8-%E9%82%A3%E7%89%A0%E5%80%91%E6%98%AF%E8%AA%B0%E5%91%A2/id1572963549?i=1000564123308