並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep115-%E7%8B%97%E7%8B%97%E9%BD%92%E7%A7%91%E9%9A%B1%E5%BD%A2%E6%AE%BA%E6%89%8B-%E7%89%99%E5%91%A8%E7%97%85-ft-%E5%8E%9F%E5%85%B8%E5%8B%95%E7%89%A9%E9%86%AB%E9%99%A2%E9%99%A2%E9%95%B7%E5%AD%AB%E5%85%A8%E7%8D%B8%E9%86%AB%E5%B8%AB/id1482897944?i=1000534068512