並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep11-%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E7%9A%84%E5%9C%B0%E6%96%B9%E5%86%B7%E7%9F%A5%E8%AD%98-%E4%B8%80%E4%BA%9B%E4%B8%8D%E7%9F%A5%E9%81%93%E4%B9%9F%E4%B8%8D%E6%9C%83%E6%80%8E%E6%A8%A3%E7%9A%84%E5%B0%8F%E7%9F%A5%E8%AD%98%E5%80%91/id1578003680?i=1000539602292